Marcello Pera

...Why we must define ourselves Christians

A liberal speaks

An Interview with Marcello Pera
By
Wlodzimierz Redzioch

Marcello Pera's latest book was published early in December; it is entitled Perchè dobbiamo definirci Cristiani. Europa, liberalismo e etica (Why we must define ourselves Christians. Europe, liberalism and ethics ). The book is prefaced by Benedict XVI' s letter to the author. It is a rare and significant fact, but not new for the Italian philosopher, considering his long established friendship with the Pope. This friendship began with the two conferences that President Pera and cardinal Ratzinger gave at the Lateran University and in the Hall of the Chapter of the Senate on 13th and 14th May 2004 respectively. The came an exchange of two letters developing the issues dealt with in their conferences. The letters and the text of the conferences were collected in a book entitled Senza radici. Europa, relativismo, cristianesimo, islam, published by Mondadori in 2004 [ENGLISH TRANSLATION: WITHOUT ROOTS. EUROPE, RELATIVISM, CHRISTIANITY, ISLAM, BASIC BOOKS, NEW YORK 2005]. The issues dealt with in the 2004 book were for the most part the same as the ones treated in the book which we present tonight and in the Pope's letter. After that Benedict XVI had his book L'Europa di Benedetto nella crisi delle culture (St Benedict's Europe in a cultural crisis) prefaced by Marcello Pera; this book, published by Cantagalli in May 2005 [ENGLISH TRANSLATION: CHRISTIANITY AND THE CRISIS OF CULTURES, IGNATIUS PRESS, SAN FRANCISCO 2006], featured cardinal Ratzinger's speeches, amongst which the last one made at Subiaco on April 1st 2005, the day before John Paul II' s death. In this speech, addressed to non believers, the cardinal invited them to live veluti si Deus daretur i.e. as if God existed. President Pera entitled his preface to cardinal Ratzinger's book Una proposta da accettare (A proposal to be accepted). Then, on 25th October in a meeting on freedom and laicality held by the foundation Magna Charta, Benedict XVI sent President Pera a significant letter in which he called for a sound and positive laicality.

Wlodimierz Redzioch

Senator Pera, when did you meet the present pope? How do you see, as a non confessional thinker, your relation with Joseph Ratzinger as a priest, theologian and nowadays pope?

Senator Marcello Pera

I met him after being elected President of the Italian Senate in 2001. I soon appreciated his logic and deep learning. Meeting cardinal Ratzinger was very important to me, both personally and intellectually. As a philosopher of science, I have always opposed epistemological relativism of part of contemporary philosophy. Meeting Joseph Ratzinger and conducting in depth study of issues he had himself dealt with, I focused my attention on moral relativism. Also, I remember that relativism was the object of memorable private audience I had with John Paul II.
Wlodimierz Redzioch

The title of your book itself provides an indication of the questions treated. The first one is liberalism. Is there a liberalism which does not oppose Christianity, which doesn't think of it as a hindrance to the progress of man and society?

Senator Marcello Pera

True liberalism is not anti Christian. In addition, liberalism must admit to being indebted to Christianity. Two of its tenets are derived from the Bible. First: God has made man in His own image: this implies human dignity. Second: God has made the truth known to us: the revelation of the truth implies freedom and responsibility. One of the greatest liberal thinkers, Friederich Hayek once said: "I am convinced that unless the cleavage between true liberalism and religious beliefs is bridged, there will be no hope for a revival of liberalism."

Wlodimierz Redzioch

Benedict XVI regards relativism as one of the evils of Western civilization, but most liberals regard it as the foundation of democracy. What do you think about it?

Senator Marcello Pera

Relativism is the doctrine of those who think of any idea, action, or belief as worthy of respect and tolerance, for the simple reason that, being the cultural product of a given society, it can be judged by the moral standards of that society. In other words, there are no moral values or standards which can be applied to all cultures. Everything can be said or done if anyone says or does it. It looks like the triumph of freedom, but it is an illusion. Let's make some considerations. There are groups or entire societies which admit infibulation, polygamy, combined marriages, incest, eugenics or the lex talionis. In my opinion we should not tolerate these practices in the name of relativism, i.e. on the assumption that each individual has his own beliefs. In particular, I think that democracy should be built upon indisputable values. After all, if we were really relativists, the international declarations of human rights which everybody in the Western world wants, relativists included, would not make any sense. Relativists contradict themselves: they deny what they state.

Wlodimierz Redzioch

The unification process of our continent has been going on for a half century. This process was stimulated by the action of Catholic statesmen like Konrad Adenauer, Alcide De Gasperi and Robert Schuman, who wanted to built a united and pacified Europe on Christian foundations. Nowadays the European Parliament is dominated by political and ideological groups socialists, communists, greens, radicals and liberals too with a world vision opposed to Christianity (this is reflected by the bills and documents passed in Brussels). What's happened in Europe over the last decades?
Senator Marcello Pera

Unlike America, Europe has forgotten its Christian roots, it has humiliated its identity. Nowadays laicism and relativism have prevailed; they are trying to marginalize the religious element. This is a mistake, since Christianity has provided us with some of the foundations of our civilization upon which we have built our liberal democracies. It is by no mere chance that whenever man eliminated religion from social life, as was the case with Nazism and Communism, he turned the world into a hell. Heaven on earth is a goal which will never be achieved. However, when we returned to paganism, we built a hell on earth. John Paul II realized that this was likely to take place in Europe, but unfortunately he didn't win this battle.

Wlodimierz Redzioch

Nowadays Poland does not enjoy a good reputation in Europe; we are regarded as half-hearted supporters of Europeanism. Actually, many people in Poland do not like the place reserved to the Church, the Christian heritage and Catholic politicians e.g. Buttiglione, in the European Union. To lots of Poles this European Union looks a bit like the old Soviet bloc. Are they mistaken?

Senator Marcello Pera

They are not mistaken. It is by no mere chance that another country with a strong Christian tradition like Ireland rejected the European Constitution. European heads of state and government know these things and therefore behave like enlightened dictators; they never let us discuss, participate or vote. They work and meet behind closed doors; they are trying to build Europe without the European people. As a result, nobody likes or is enthusiastic about this Europe devoid, as it is of ideals, with no cultural reference or common foreign policy. It is only a centre of bureaucratic control; a set of regulations which paralyze the life of Europeans without actually improving it. Unless Europe decides to rediscover its identity, to preserve its political, religious and cultural roots, it will inevitably be condemned to succumb, on the world scene, to competitors which, on the contrary, are greatly concerned about the promotion of their own identity. Let's put it like this: unless Europe becomes a necessity for Europeans, an ideal to fight for, it will be perceived as an obstacle, as a myth with no sense. Those politicians and intellectuals, I'm thinking of Habermas's constitutional patriotism, who advocate a European constitution built on abstract principles, which does not involve popular participation, should remember America, its Declaration of Independence and Constitution. If they are willing to reflect, at least once, on European identity and the role of Christianity in the building of basic human rights, they should look to the Polish constitution.

Wlodimierz Redzioch

Nowadays multiculturalism is a myth of the European left. The left, along with some liberal circles, says that we cannot emphasize our Christian roots or the role of Christianity as Europe is already and will be more and more multi religious, multiethnic and multicultural. Are we condemned to lose our Christian identity to build a multicultural society?

Senator Marcello Pera

People of different cultures can and must live together and mingle, but identities on a vast scale must be preserved and the values of our civilization must be defended. Multiculturalism is the other side of relativism: everything is the same, everything is blurred, there is no scale of values, only local habits and collective rights.

Wlodimierz Redzioch

Oriana Fallaci, your great fellow countrywoman, spent the last years of her life writing books in which she warned us against the danger of the islamization of Europe. Do you sense this danger too?

Senator Marcello Pera

Islam is a great civilization which is obviously not to be demonized or opposed as a whole. Muslims who arrive in Europe are proud to preserve their roots and tend to build "national Islams". This is understandable and reasonable, but becomes dangerous when "national Islams" do not recognize typically European values and principles, since this is a hindrance to integration. Europeans should insist on the defence of their identity as defined in their constitutions; however, they seem to be ashamed of their own roots and mortify them. What is more, they are not willing to work for the integration of immigrants. In addition, they do not ask the Muslim countries these people come from to guarantee religious freedom to the Christians who live there. There is a dangerous inequality likely to weaken Europe.

Wlodimierz Redzioch

Let us go back to the central point of our book. You explain why we need to recognize the link between real liberalism and Christianity. Could you give a short explanation to our readers?

Senator Marcello Pera

The values which made our civilization great originated from Christianity. Liberalism is founded on Christian principles. Attacking Christianity, mortifying it, confining it to the private sphere implies weakening the values I was talking about human dignity and freedom which are the foundations of liberalism. What will be left of our civilization, once we have severed our link with Christianity and betrayed liberalism, which has made us prosperous and free? Hence the necessity for all of us, even non believers, to identify with Christianity in terms of values and culture. Obviously, they must do this if they want to keep the freedom they enjoy.

Wlodimierz Redzioch

You received cardinal Ratzinger's call to non believers to live velut si Deus daretur i.e. as if God existed. Will you convince others to follow you?

Senator Marcello Pera

The Pope's proposal has marked an advance on his predecessors as far as the relation with the lay and non believers is concerned. By inviting us to follow the exhortation of Pascal and Kant to live as if God existed, Benedict XVI has cast a bridge towards all those who have not received to gift of faith. As for me, I think that this is an acceptable solution as it is far reaching: in this way we can be responsible for our actions. If God exists, there are limits we must impose ourselves and respect. In dealing with others, in passing laws and organizing society, we cannot give claim unlimited power or freedom. The negation of Christianity works like a drug: it gives euphoria at first, but then produces frustration and depression.